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Author Topic: And Now The Return of Another New Slideshow (Sort of), Part 2 [**Now featuring alternate versions of scenes - see replies #18,#21,#23,#49,#64,#69,#76,#88,#90,#100,#105,#107,#115**]  (Read 88155 times)

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Offline Mysterious Benefactor

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Re: And Now The Return of Another New Slideshow (Sort of), Part 2 [**Now featuring alternate versions of scenes - see replies #18,#21,#23,#49,#64,#69,#76,#88,#90,#100,#105,#107,#115**]
« Reply #315 on: May 16, 2017, 08:10:33 PM »
Continuing Scene 108A with today's quote -

Page 41A/Scene 108A - Elizabeth: 'I've been worried about it. Between those attacks and Maggie leaving.'

- coming up.

However, those lines are all crossed out in DC's script. At first they were to be replaced with "I hope so. You know I almost canceled it because of those numerable attacks." But that was almost completely erased and replaced with "I hope so. The time didn't seem right for a party - those attacks...Maggie leaving..." But because this is yet another scene that ended up on the cutting room floor, who knows what Liz might have actually said in the film...
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Offline Gothick

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Re: And Now The Return of Another New Slideshow (Sort of), Part 2 [**Now featuring alternate versions of scenes - see replies #18,#21,#23,#49,#64,#69,#76,#88,#90,#100,#105,#107,#115**]
« Reply #316 on: May 16, 2017, 09:08:26 PM »
It would be interesting to estimate just how long the costume party sequence (or "bal masque" sequence as they used to say in the old horror books) would have lasted, had all the excised bits been kept.  Around ten minutes?  Fifteen?  It may not be possible to come up with a very precise estimate.

Fascinating to see all these bits together in one coherent narrative.  Thanks again, MB!

G.
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Offline KMR

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Re: And Now The Return of Another New Slideshow (Sort of), Part 2 [**Now featuring alternate versions of scenes - see replies #18,#21,#23,#49,#64,#69,#76,#88,#90,#100,#105,#107,#115**]
« Reply #317 on: May 17, 2017, 07:06:26 PM »
Quote from: Mysterious Benefactor on May 15, 2017, 09:54:01 PM
In order to fully illustrate the confusion with the end of Scene 107, we need to backtrack just a bit to show what the script looks like:

                         _______________________________
_______________________ /                               \
|                       |      BARNABAS                 |
|                       |I'm not sure when I'll be back.|
|                 rt     \______________________________/
|         He turns^to look at something off screen.
|
|   108.  MAGGIE AND JEFF - BARNABAS' POV
|
|         They are on the other side of the room enjoying each
|         other's company.
|                        JULIA   (O.C)
|                Mr   Collins    -   did   you   hear   me?
|                When   will   you   be   back
|_______________________________>

One thing that's probably apparent is that Barnabas line about not knowing when he would be back was to be delivered after Julia's added lines. However, were Julia's lines supposed to be a part of the end of Scene 107 and were simply written on the script page as part of Scene 108 because that's where there was space for them at the bottom of the page, or were they supposed to part of Scene 108. If it's the latter, then Barnabas line was taken out of Scene 107 and put into Scene 108. And what complicates things further is that it's unclear what the "^" between the words "turns" and "to" and the added "rt" above it means.  [hdscrt]


I'm reading the image as saying Barnabas turns to the right (his right? the audience's right?) at the end of 107.  It looks like a circle around Barnabas' line, with an arrow placing it down below Julia's line in 108.

At least, that's how I interpret this.  (MB, I applaud your efforts to reproduce annotated script pages with HTML!  [easter_smiley])
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Offline Mysterious Benefactor

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Re: And Now The Return of Another New Slideshow (Sort of), Part 2 [**Now featuring alternate versions of scenes - see replies #18,#21,#23,#49,#64,#69,#76,#88,#90,#100,#105,#107,#115**]
« Reply #318 on: May 17, 2017, 07:34:01 PM »
Quote from: KMR on May 17, 2017, 07:06:26 PM
I'm reading the image as saying Barnabas turns to the right (his right? the audience's right?) at the end of 107.

That's definitely one way to interpret it, and most probably the correct way too.  [easter_smiley]

Quote
It looks like a circle around Barnabas' line, with an arrow placing it down below Julia's line in 108.

That's what I was thinking is most likely, but who knows? Of all the scenes that ended up on the cutting room floor, I wish that one between Julia and Barnabas had been in the film. But alas...

I suppose it might be understandable why David's apology didn't make it because we never saw the "Hanging David" scene. But we did still see David locking Maggie in the room at the Old House, so it's not like David's apology would have made no sense. But ours is not to try to fathom DC's choices...

Quote
(MB, I applaud your efforts to reproduce annotated script pages with HTML!  [easter_smiley])

It's not always easy - but it is a fun challenge.  [easter_wink]
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Offline Mysterious Benefactor

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Re: And Now The Return of Another New Slideshow (Sort of), Part 2 [**Now featuring alternate versions of scenes - see replies #18,#21,#23,#49,#64,#69,#76,#88,#90,#100,#105,#107,#115**]
« Reply #319 on: May 17, 2017, 08:40:54 PM »
Wrapping up Scene 108A, beginning with today's quote -

Page 41A/Scene 108A - Stokes: 'We can do nothing about the attacks. But surely, someone can talk Maggie into staying.'

- coming up, followed in the script by:

       Elizabeth shakes her head.  She abviously has tried.
       Barnabas looks to Maggie.

                                       (CUT TO SC. 109)

Interestingly, while this is Scene 108A in the script, DC wrote over the "8" and made it a "7," changing it to Scene 107A - and he changed the scene that would be cut to, to "SC 108". Perhaps the reason why will become clear when we start Scene 109 in tomorrow's slideshow...

Also interestingly, the Fest's 1999 Movie Calendar has a Stokes' quote from Scene 108A that doesn't appear in any other version of the script that I've seen. We actually featured it in the original hoDS slideshow as the February 28th installment because that's the date it appears on the calendar:


hoDS: Alternate Scene #108A - Stokes: 'Perhaps we are
being watched by eyes we cannot see.'

I would love to know in what context that came up in an alternate version of the scene. As I observed originally, it's too bad that they dropped it because, without knowing it, Stokes would have been perfectly assessing the way Barnabas keeps watching Maggie. Though, considering that regardless if it was Scene 108A or 107A, the scene ended up on the cutting room floor, I suppose we were destined to never know (well, unless one of us can get our hands on a copy of that alternate version of the script)...
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Offline Mysterious Benefactor

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Re: And Now The Return of Another New Slideshow (Sort of), Part 2 [**Now featuring alternate versions of scenes - see replies #18,#21,#23,#49,#64,#69,#76,#88,#90,#100,#105,#107,#115**]
« Reply #320 on: May 19, 2017, 01:06:28 AM »
Also quite interestingly, I just noticed that Scene 108A doesn't appear in the novelization at all. Apparently the March 11th revision didn't simply revise what may have been original scenes, it revised a newer scene that wasn't even in the version of the script that was used for the novelization (most probably the scene in which Stokes speaks about being watched by eyes they cannot see). Which brings me to the speculation about how Jeff and Barnabas might have met prior to Maggie asking them if they had. Perhaps rather than scripted Scene 108A, there was a scripted or improvised/ad libbed scene, one similar to Scene 108A that might have involved not only Barnabas, Liz and Stokes, but also Jeff? There is that still that I posted in reply 276 of Jeff with Liz and Stokes:
Quote from: Mysterious Benefactor on May 04, 2017, 03:44:01 AM
It could simply be a publicity shot that has no bearing as a scene in the film - but it's just as possible that it was meant to be a scene in the film - and it's possible that at some point Barnabas joined them to thank Liz or whatever and that scene was meant o appear in the film prior to Maggie asking Jeff if they had met each other. But who knows? Especially given that in the novelization of Scene 106, Jeff and Barnabas also indicate that they have met but just as in the film there's no hint in the novelization of where or how they did. Maybe we were simply never meant to know where and how they'd met previously, only to accept it. It certainly comes across as something DC would expect the audience to accept rather than "waste time" (to his mind) actually depicting it for them...
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Offline Mysterious Benefactor

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Re: And Now The Return of Another New Slideshow (Sort of), Part 2 [**Now featuring alternate versions of scenes - see replies #18,#21,#23,#49,#64,#69,#76,#88,#90,#100,#105,#107,#115**]
« Reply #321 on: May 19, 2017, 01:18:07 AM »
Setting up the next sequence at the party and the current scene in the slideshow:


109.   INT. LIBRARY - NIGHT

       It is later.  We pick up with Maggie and Barnabas at library
       window.  There is no one else in the room.  The SOUNDS
       OF THE PARTY can be heard in b.g.  An occasional guest
       can be seen through the open door.

And that's when today's quote -

Page 41B/Scene 109 - Maggie: 'Mr. Collins, we shouldn't have left.'

- comes up.

However, because this is even yet another scene that ended up on the cutting room floor, when it comes to the dialogue, the descriptions, and the directions for this scene, we have no way at this point of knowing how things might have actually played out in the film... Although, there is a notation in DC's script that Maggie would deliver the quoted line off camera.
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Offline Mysterious Benefactor

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Re: And Now The Return of Another New Slideshow (Sort of), Part 2 [**Now featuring alternate versions of scenes - see replies #18,#21,#23,#49,#64,#69,#76,#88,#90,#100,#105,#107,#115**]
« Reply #322 on: May 20, 2017, 08:10:11 PM »
Wrapping up Scene 109, beginning with yesterday's quote -

Page 41B/Scene 109 - Barnabas: 'Why not? I'm sure the real Barnabas and Josette did once.'

- coming up, followed by today's quote -

Page 41B/Scene 109 - Maggie: 'But we're not them.'

- coming up, followed in the script by:

       She smiles at him.  Barnabas looks at her quite
       sseriously.

                            BARNABAS (x to her)
                  Tell me about yourself.

                            MAGGIE
                  You really want to know, don't you?


       He nods that he does.                                _                 _
                                                           /  INTERCUT     \
                            BARNABAS (takes 1 1/2 steps rt)     |  A  CU OF         |
                  Yes I do.| I want to know                \_ BARN HERE__/
                  everything about you.

                            MAGGIE
                  Well, that would take a long, long       /  INTERCUT     \
                  time. <------------------------------------------------|HER  CU  HERE/
                        (x's away)
                  You know I'm leaving.


       He crosses aw ay from her.

                            BARNABAS
                  Maggie...listen to me for a moment.

                                                     CONTINUED

And even though it says it's continued, that's the end of Scene 109 as it appears in DC's script. Though it makes sense that it would end up there given how things pick up between them in upcoming Scene 111. However, because this is even yet another party scene (though the last one) that ended up on the cutting room floor, when it comes to the dialogue, the descriptions, the directions, and DC's notations for this scene, we have no way at this point of knowing how things might have actually played out in the film...

One notation that isn't seen above is that in yesterday's quote, after Barnabas asks "Why not?", DC indicates that Barnabas would cross to Maggie as he delivers the rest of his quoted lines. And another notation is that as all that is happening the camera would pan Barnabas to a 2 shot of him and Maggie...

And yes, any typos above are included in the script.
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Offline Mysterious Benefactor

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Re: And Now The Return of Another New Slideshow (Sort of), Part 2 [**Now featuring alternate versions of scenes - see replies #18,#21,#23,#49,#64,#69,#76,#88,#90,#100,#105,#107,#115**]
« Reply #323 on: May 21, 2017, 12:40:00 AM »
I just checked Scene 109 in the hoDS novel and again it's the case that the novelization of a scene contains more material than what's in DC's script:

Barnabas finally managed to get Maggie away
from the crowd. He took her into the library where
sounds of the party could be heard in the distance and
an occasional guest went by the door. Maggie was
surprised by Barnabas' determination to be alone with her.
His sudden strange interest in her brought her some
uneasiness.
  As they stood together at the library window she said,
"We shouldn't have left."
  "Why not?" he asked. "I'm sure the original Barn-
abas and his Josette did once too."
  "But we're not them," she said with a smile.
  He eyed her seriously. "Tell me about yourself."
  "You mean that, don't you?" she said.
  "Of course I do."
  "You want to hear. So many people ask and don't,
really. But you do."
  "I do," he said quietly.
  "I'm not all that interesting."
  "You are to me. I hope I have time to get to know
you."
  "But you know I'm leaving."
  Barnabas didn't reply but moved away from her to
stand in the shadows for a moment.

Whenever I read that scene in DC's script, it seems to me as if expected dialogue is missing - and perhaps there is if the extra dialogue in the novelization really did appear in the version of the script that was used for the novel. What is there, even with respect to the descriptions and directions, IS nearly word for word like DC's script.

One thing that is interesting to see is even the novelization ends with Maggie reminding Barnabas that she's leaving (though Barnabas' request in the script that she listen for a momen doesn't appear). But perhaps what might have been the continued portion that doesn't appear in DC's script was simply the description/direction explaining that Barnabas moves away from her. And that does make sense within the script because when upcoming Scene 111 returns to them, Barnabas is indeed standing on the other side of the room and then makes his way back to her...

I also think it's interesting that the novel uses "original Barnabas and his Josette" rather than DC's script's "real Barnabas and Josette," with "real" seeming an odd choice of word. If the wording in the novel really is the way it was in the script originally, who knows why they changed it? And it would have been fascinating to see which wording Frid used in the film when Barnabas delivered that line. But alas...
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Offline Mysterious Benefactor

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Re: And Now The Return of Another New Slideshow (Sort of), Part 2 [**Now featuring alternate versions of scenes - see replies #18,#21,#23,#49,#64,#69,#76,#88,#90,#100,#105,#107,#115**]
« Reply #324 on: May 21, 2017, 05:22:01 AM »
Considering I've already mentioned a few times that the script doesn't return to Barnabas and Maggie until Scene 111, that must mean there's a Scene 110 - and here it is:


110    INT:  CARD ROOM - NIGHT                            110

       Carolyn enters from organ room.  CAMERA PANS her to
       exit which leads to hall.  As she crosses frame from
       left to right, Barnabas can be seen in shot through
       the open door to the library.  Carolyn stops, looks.
       Barnabas is obviously talking to someone Carolyn
       cannot see.  Carolyn cannot hear him.  He exits the
       shot as he crosses back to Maggie.

End of scene. And if one paid attention to the dance interlude GIF in reply 301, one already knows that as Carolyn is about to enter the Card Room in this scene, who should already be in the room but "John," in yet more screen time for him, as he's seen making his way to exit the room though the doorway to the hallway...
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Offline Mysterious Benefactor

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Re: And Now The Return of Another New Slideshow (Sort of), Part 2 [**Now featuring alternate versions of scenes - see replies #18,#21,#23,#49,#64,#69,#76,#88,#90,#100,#105,#107,#115**]
« Reply #325 on: May 21, 2017, 08:30:00 PM »
Setting up the current scene:

111    INT:  LIBRARY - NIGHT                              111
       BARNABAS AND MAGGIE

And that's when today's quote -

Page 42/Scene 111 - Barnabas: 'You belong here. You must not leave. Maggie, I watched you with David tonight. He's so fond of you. And you of him. Everything can still work out. Believe me.'

- comes up, followed in the script by:

        Pans  him   to
CAMERA BACK TO TWO SHOT.                     

And when it comes to the dialogue, what Barnabas actually says is "You mustn't leave. You know, I was watching you and David earlier this evening. He's so fond of you, and you are of him. Now, things can still work out, believe me."

And DC's script has a note that Barnabas delivers his lines "as he crosses to her", and that is exactly how things play in the film, just as DC's other note that the camera pans him to a 2 shot is exactly how things play. (Actually what is odd is that before it was partly crossed out, the script said "CAMERA BACK TO TWO SHOT", which must refer to how the scene was originally supposed to start with a 2 shot of Barnabas and Maggie before Maggie was crossed out, but at no point does the script say that 2 shot changes to something else. So, from what would the camera go "back" to a 2 shot?)
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Offline Mysterious Benefactor

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Re: And Now The Return of Another New Slideshow (Sort of), Part 2 [**Now featuring alternate versions of scenes - see replies #18,#21,#23,#49,#64,#69,#76,#88,#90,#100,#105,#107,#115**]
« Reply #326 on: May 22, 2017, 08:50:46 PM »
Continuing Scene 111, with Maggie's reaction to Barnabas' belief that things can still work out:

       as Maggie looks at him, trying to figure out what she
       is feeling.

                             MAGGIE
                 I do.

       That surprises her. She x in front of him.

And that's when today's quote -

Page 42/Scene 111 - Maggie: 'I feel as if I've known you forever so long. But we've just met --'

- comes up.

And when it comes to the dialogue, the descriptions, and the directions, I do love how Maggie looks at Barnabas while he's saying things can still work out -


- it's almost like who-is-this-guy-who-knows-nothing-about-me-telling-me-things-can-work-out? - and as in the script, Maggie's "I do" in agreement that she believes Barnabas is dropped, so there's no reaction of surprise with regard to that, though as can be seen in today's capture -


- Maggie does have a reaction of surprise, however, when she actually says "We've just met, and yet I feel as if I've known you for so long" (an indication that she really is Josette's reincarnation, contrary to the characters who think otherwise?) - but unlike DC's notation, Maggie doesn't cross in front of Barnabas quite yet...
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Offline Mysterious Benefactor

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Re: And Now The Return of Another New Slideshow (Sort of), Part 2 [**Now featuring alternate versions of scenes - see replies #18,#21,#23,#49,#64,#69,#76,#88,#90,#100,#105,#107,#115**]
« Reply #327 on: May 23, 2017, 09:22:17 PM »
Continuing Scene 111, picking up with Maggie's scripted actions after she tells Barnabas she feels as if she's known him for a long time:

         She   turns  to look  at him
       They look at each other.  He smiles down at her.
       There is an intensity in his looks that frightens her.
       She turns away.

And that's when today's quote -

Page 42/Scene 111 - Barnabas: 'Go tell Cousin Elizabeth that you will stay. She wants you. David does. I do --'

- comes up.

And when it comes to the dialogue, the descriptions, and the directions, considering that Maggie has yet to cross in front of Barnabas, she doesn't actually turn to look at him because, as can be seen in today's capture, she and Barnabas -


- are still standing face to face - and as Barnabas tries to persuade Maggie to stay by actually saying "Go tell  Elizabeth that you'll stay. She wants you. David does" and then with special emphasis he adds "I do", there doesn't really seem to be anything about him that frightens her because what she does as he speaks is look at him, then down in thought, and then back at him as she's surprised by his emphasis at how much he wants her to stay - and after all that is when she actually -


- crosses in front of him as she's still deep in thought, and to that DC has yet another notation after Barnabas' dialogue that she crosses, only this time she really does...
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Offline Gothick

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Re: And Now The Return of Another New Slideshow (Sort of), Part 2 [**Now featuring alternate versions of scenes - see replies #18,#21,#23,#49,#64,#69,#76,#88,#90,#100,#105,#107,#115**]
« Reply #328 on: May 24, 2017, 12:10:49 PM »
Interesting sequence--thanks, MB! 

I actually found myself wondering looking at the photo of Davis with Joan and Thayer if DC would have changed the 1795 story to have Davis, as an altruistic version of Nathan Forbes, in a more heroic role. A thought stimulated by the fact to which I stupidly never paid attention that Jeff is wearing Nathan's uniform here, or so it would seem.  KLS's diary does say that DC wanted Davis to become KLS's new love interest after the wrap-up of the PT 1970 story and she did not react at all well to that news.  And who can blame her.  The original sequel to hoDS was reportedly planned to be set in the 18th century, at least in part.  Undoubtedly a version of the Angelique curse narrative would have been the plot focus.

Another thought I had reading through what you shared is that this time around, one may presume that Maggie did realize that Barnabas's interest in her was romantic.  It's been so long since I last saw the film, and my short term memory is so patchy now, that I can't recall whether the subsequent scenes of them having dinner and spending time together while Jeff is out of town include cues that she acknowledges and accepts that Barnabas is courting her.  My memory, for what it is worth, is that the scenes have Maggie's reactions ambiguous.  Is she simply touched that somebody as worldly as Barnabas is interested in her, or does she realize that he has romantic feelings for her. And, in turn, does she reciprocate?

Given DC's determination to give priority to the standard horror narrative that kicks in fairly quickly, it may all be left undefined and uncertain. Because, as you say, DC would be thinking, "nobody's gonna waste time wondering what emotional stuff is going on here before we get to THE FANGING and THE BLOOD."

cheers, G.
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Offline Uncle Roger

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Re: And Now The Return of Another New Slideshow (Sort of), Part 2 [**Now featuring alternate versions of scenes - see replies #18,#21,#23,#49,#64,#69,#76,#88,#90,#100,#105,#107,#115**]
« Reply #329 on: May 24, 2017, 02:52:56 PM »
It has always seemed a little odd to me that Maggie would continue to see Barnabas socially after the negative reaction that Jeff had to him at the party. Was their relationship less secure than it appeared?
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