Author Topic: Depp/Burton DARK SHADOWS Is In Release!!  (Read 348677 times)

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Offline jimbo

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Re: Depp/Burton DARK SHADOWS Is In Release!!
« Reply #465 on: June 02, 2012, 12:23:50 AM »
I am pretty sure we had a discussion here way back and I thought most of us believed that WB was going to attempt to tap into the Twilight fan base. I mean that was a no brainer. But somehow WB decided on going Disney. It wanted DS to be a family movie. Here is where I am torn a bit. WB ultimately approved the trailers we have seen. But the studio had to deal the hand it was given. To me the blame is mostly on Depp. He was the one who rejected August's script because he wanted a more "stranger" movie. JD wanted a script where he could use his comedic talents instead of using his dramatic acting skills. It was his decision to go in the direction he did. Now did WB influence his decision on making DS a more family/comedic movie? I say it doesn't matter. JD and his company could have taken it to another studio if JD wanted a serious dramatic take on the movie. But he didn't. If we had a JD/TB serious vampire flick I am sure it would have taken in a hundred million without blinking. It is true that The Avengers did suck earning power from the DS movie. But another studio executive was quoted anonymously that you can't blame the poor showing for the DS movie based on Avengers. He said that was part of the problem but it didn't help matters that DS was a bad movie. Where was the Twilight audience? Why weren't they targeted as CB asks.

I am also curious about how The Tourist managed to develop legs. What did the studio do to make that possible. In both of two New York biggest newspapers today there wasn't one single advertisement for the DS movie. So how is DS suppose to develop legs? By just word of mouth? The word of mouth is really bad no matter how we justify it here. The bottom line is just that. I hope it manages to stay in a high number of theatres in the coming weeks but the movie is on its own. It seems WB is cutting its losses. The John Mars movie cost its studio over a hundred million to market it in addition to its 250 million dollar budget. I have a feeling WB paid almost that much for the DS movie.

I'm not saying the movie flopped or tanked. But its out there and we would have a better leg to stand on if the movie grosses something near $100 million domestically which right now is an extremely long shot. But I remain hopeful.

Offline Mysterious Benefactor

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Re: Depp/Burton DARK SHADOWS Is In Release!!
« Reply #466 on: June 02, 2012, 01:25:16 AM »
It's definitely true that the entertainment media feels the need to spin a story to make headlines. Would that that wasn't true and that they actually focused on confirmed facts rather than spin and/or innuendo. But then the overwhelming glut of tabloid magazines and Web sites quite obviously shows that far too many people aren't interested in facts - they want the spin and the innuendo - and it often seems that the worse you can paint something, the more people are likely to be interested in hearing about it. It's a odd quirk in much of society. But then, this isn't a sociological discussion site, so I'll leave that part of the discussion at that. And the final thing I'll say on the subject of spin is that the sad fact of the matter is that saying that a film they've declared a flop will in all likelihood make its money back when all is said and done isn't in the least bit tantalizing, so it's no wonder that these entertainment sites never quite seem to bring that up, or even acknowledge it when it happens. And as for these sites quoting executives from other studios, well, even when they're identified and they speak on the record, I take that sort of thing with a grain of salt because they have their own agendas to promote - but when they hide behind anonymity, well, as I've said before, I take what they say with pounds of salt. In fact, I often wonder if the so-called studio exec even exists and isn't simply made up as a way to bolster the opinions the writer has already formed and wants to promote. The sad thing is that at one time no one would dream that people might make up parts of their stories - but today that's no longer the case.

As for whether or not DS would have made more money had it been completely serious, that's a hard thing to say either way. But what is known is that, in general, vampire movies do not bring in bucket loads of box office money. A look at the vampire genre chart on Box Office Mojo will show that. Outside of the Twilight films, which already had a built-in audience thanks to the books being current and so popular, box office rarely approaches anything like $100 million, much less surpasses it. It's probably truer than it rarely even approaches half of that.

As for what Warner Brothers did to help The Tourist make money, they did as much as they're currently doing for DS. Like I said, films are very rarely promoted by their studios after two weeks of wide release.

And I would also question whether or not DS has bad word of mouth. As I said the other day, it's certainly not true of the people I know of who've seen the film because they have definitely recommended it to their friends. And one thing we most certainly shouldn't do is necessarily judge based on what may be being written on the Internet because the Internet is almost completely a place where more people are likely to complain about anything and everything than they are likely to defend it. The fact is that DS received a B- from the audience polling outfit Cinemascore, and not only when I went to school, but when I taught college, B's were considered good grades. Sure, some entertainment sites have said a B- is a "poor grade" - but the ones with any grasp on reality realize that isn't the case - and believe it or not the other day I actually came across a site that described the D+ received by Chernobyl Diaries as a "poor grade" - and hello, that's far more accurate. There's no way a B- and a D+ are synonymous in reality. The only place they might be synonymous is in the delusional worlds of some Internet entertainment sites.  [ghost_rolleyes]  But in the real world A's are Excellent, B's are Good, C's are Average, D's are Poor, and F is Failure.  [ghost_wink]

21 days 20 hours 25 minutes 16 seconds since the Depp/Burton Dark Shadows has been in release(ET)!!

David

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Re: Depp/Burton DARK SHADOWS Is In Release!!
« Reply #467 on: June 02, 2012, 01:46:54 AM »
I enjoyed the film overall. But that trailer was a big turn off.
The film definitely did less than expected in the USA, but still did better than other films. It was such a smash in Europe, however, that it cannot be called a flop.

Here's hoping for two more films and a new TV series!

Offline jimbo

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Re: Depp/Burton DARK SHADOWS Is In Release!!
« Reply #468 on: June 02, 2012, 01:53:33 AM »
Thanks MB for the various explanations. I just think if the word on the street about the movie was positive, more people would see the movie. I don't think that is an over simplification. I think what is keeping the Twilight fans away is bad word of mouth. Those in that particular audience may have spread the word that the movie is silly or too comedic. There has to be a reason why they apparently have not seen the movie. If only a segment of their audience went to see the DS movie it would have performed better. It seems the movie is drawing in an "older" audience from the articles I have read.

I just saw another article that indicated that DS movie had "bombed". I do agree those type of hot words get readers' attention and make for headlines. I'm just saying we need to be prepared to deal with this negativity for the rest of the year. At least Mojo in its analysis referred to DS as a disappointment compared to its take on Battleship as a disaster. http://www.boxofficemojo.com/news/?id=3453&p=.htm

David I agree with your trailer statement but the international sales have been described as "soft". I don't know what to believe anymore.

Offline jimbo

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Re: Depp/Burton DARK SHADOWS Is In Release!!
« Reply #469 on: June 02, 2012, 02:03:36 AM »
Correction: For the record Mojo referred to DS as unimpressive.

Offline Mysterious Benefactor

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Re: Depp/Burton DARK SHADOWS Is In Release!!
« Reply #470 on: June 02, 2012, 02:21:26 AM »
I just think if the word on the street about the movie was positive, more people would see the movie. I don't think that is an over simplification. I think what is keeping the Twilight fans away is bad word of mouth. Those in that particular audience may have spread the word that the movie is silly or too comedic. There has to be a reason why they apparently have not seen the movie. If only a segment of their audience went to see the DS movie it would have performed better. It seems the movie is drawing in an "older" audience from the articles I have read.

What could be keeping many Twilight fans away could be as simple as that Depp and his take on Barnabas is certainly no Robert Pattinson and Edward Cullen. (And to that many would joyously cheer Hallelujah!! - but that's beside the point.) That and the fact that the entire premise of the DS film isn't that it's a romance, which is basically the entire premise of the Twilight franchise.

And I've also read the articles that have said that the film definitely skews over 25. But the interesting thing is that for the most part, the younger people who I know of who've seen the film have enjoyed it.

Quote
I just saw another article that indicated that DS movie had "bombed". I do agree those type of hot words get readers' attention and make for headlines. I'm just saying we need to be prepared to deal with this negativity for the rest of the year.

Even if the film was to make a gazillion dollars profit from DVD/Blu-ray sales and that spurred 15 sequels, we would not just hear from some corners for rest of this year, we would still hear for the rest of our lives and then some that the film bombed. As I've said before, that's just the nature of the current entertainment culture. And even beyond that, as DS fans we're certainly well indoctrinated into hearing how bad the original DS was (even though it certainly was not and was actually a step above its contemporary soap opera competitors), how NoDS bombed (even though it didn't), how the '91 series failed to attract an audience (even though that's untrue and the fact of the matter is that it not only came in first in its time period most weeks, it ruled in the 18-49 demos), and how the '04 pilot was such a disaster that it was completely unsalvageable (even though that isn't the case, either). So nothing that will be said about the film will be in any way new to us...

21 days 21 hours 21 minutes 26 seconds since the Depp/Burton Dark Shadows has been in release(ET)!!

Offline Mysterious Benefactor

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Re: Depp/Burton DARK SHADOWS Is In Release!!
« Reply #471 on: June 02, 2012, 02:33:21 AM »
Correction: For the record Mojo referred to DS as unimpressive.

Though they also say its box office thus far is "decent for a gothic horror comedy." And honestly I think that perception of the film has trumped everything else about it. Though as I said, even if it was straight up gothic horror, I don't know if that would have made more money. For example, I thought The Woman in Black was wonderful. In fact, I bought the DVD last week on the day it came out, which just happened to coincide with the day I went to see the DS film again, and the more I watch it (I've watched it both by myself as well as with a group of friends) the more I (they) like it. But as great as I (we) think it is, the fact remains that it only brought in $54,333,290 in the US.  [ghost_sad]

21 days 21 hours 33 minutes 21 seconds since the Depp/Burton Dark Shadows has been in release(ET)!!

Offline Gerard

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Re: Depp/Burton DARK SHADOWS Is In Release!!
« Reply #472 on: June 02, 2012, 02:48:50 AM »
If the studio heads tried to cash in on "twilightism," then the studio heads needed to have their heads on the chopping block.  Twilightism is dead.  It had its momentary flash-in-the-pan, fifteen-minutes of fame.  Twilightism (and I, as a perpetual vampire lover, tried reading the first novel and got got sick two paragraphs in and put it down and never read another word, nor saw any of the film adaptations) has been just that.  The last movie got horrific reviews and its box office take has shown it to becoming the latest pet-rock thing.  The only ones, I found from my own experience, who got into the whole twilightism thing were tween girls and middle-aged women.  Here today, gone today (not even tomorrow). 

Again, as I said before here, the problem with this movie was marketing.  The studio heads (how much do they pay these guys [and gals] to make such serious mistakes?) didn't know what to do.  Yet, they still get the big bucks, and when films flop, they get golden parachutes to go to another studio and mess it up again.  I loved this movie.  As a DS fan, I think I would've known how to market it and would've done it for a fraction of what they paid the WB heads and made it a blockbuster hit.  I'm tootin' my own horn, and I think those of us here on our beloved board would've been able to do the same thing.  But nobody asked us.  WB has only itself to blame.

Gerard

David

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Re: Depp/Burton DARK SHADOWS Is In Release!!
« Reply #473 on: June 02, 2012, 03:09:46 AM »
The Woman in Black was a superb, scary as hell, old fashioned ghost story that only grossed $53 million on it's entire USA run.
Playing it straight is no guarantee of big box office.

Offline Cousin_Barnabas

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Re: Depp/Burton DARK SHADOWS Is In Release!!
« Reply #474 on: June 02, 2012, 03:17:33 AM »
But, sadly, I don't think WB really thinks it can blame itself. 

How do we know that WB was dissatisfied with the final film?  I am left with that impression from various comments, but I don't know where this is all coming from.  More than anything, I think they were confused by the film, just as many of us were/are.  I think that they mandated cuts and changes as a result of their confusion.  And I think those changes eventually proceeded to confuse those involved in the project, like SGS.  (Remember what he said about the trailer's music choice and how that was not representative of the story?)  Turns out that the trailer's music was far more representative of the film than anything in that trailer, because the movie played like one music video after another (in parts).  What we are left with is a very flawed, somewhat nonsensical final product that has a great deal of potential.  (I wish they'd let me recut this film, because I could create a masterpiece, I'm sure.  - Just saying  [ghost_wink])  The point is that it has all of the right elements.  It's just that those elements are buried and cut and mishmashed into a confusing product that cannot be easily sold to the general public or any of us for that matter.  I don't think anyone here was really sold on the film before seeing it.  Some were hopeful.  Some were disappointed.  But no one was absolutely certain that this was going to be good.  And a lot of us still don't know if "good" is a word that can be used to describe it.  It's just weird...  Not in a good way.  Not in a bad way.  It managed to capture that component of the original series, but it has blown it up completely out of proportion.  Whereas, the original show can be described as a Gothic soap-opera combining horror and romance, this film still doesn't have a six word description that really conveys what it is.  And I think it's a case of too many cooks in the kitchen.   

1966 - Gothic Soap
1967 - Supernatural Soap
1968 - Monster of the Week Daily Serial
1969 - Gothic Soap

Films
1970 - Horror
1971 - Gothic Romance

1991 - Gothic Romance

2011 - Gothic comedy-horror-romance-soap-opera-monster-mash spectacle

Offline Mysterious Benefactor

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Re: Depp/Burton DARK SHADOWS Is In Release!!
« Reply #475 on: June 02, 2012, 03:34:26 AM »
From several of the things I've read, it certainly seems as if not only was Warner Brothers sold on there being humor in the film, they may have indeed pushed for it. And if they asked for cuts, I suspect it wasn't out of confusion but the fact that they thought parts of the film were too dark. As I mentioned before, Burton just about comes out and says as much in one of his interviews.

21 days 22 hours 34 minutes 26 seconds since the Depp/Burton Dark Shadows has been in release(ET)!!

Offline Cousin_Barnabas

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Re: Depp/Burton DARK SHADOWS Is In Release!!
« Reply #476 on: June 02, 2012, 03:44:20 AM »
Well, that is what I was referring to:  the fact that they were expecting a light movie, and they ended up with such dramatic, dark material in the mix.  Come to think of it, though, even in January when WB released its press kits, Dark Shadows was billed as a sort of suspense/thriller, not as a comedy (if I remember).  So who knows what really happened here...  The whole thing is just strange.  (Should've kept The Doors' song in the trailer.   [ghost_wink])

Offline Mysterious Benefactor

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Re: Depp/Burton DARK SHADOWS Is In Release!!
« Reply #477 on: June 02, 2012, 03:58:36 AM »
The thing is, though, that the Warner Brothers execs in charge of the film had to have read the script, so they shouldn't have been surprised in any way by the mixture of humor and dark. However, what I suspect may have ultimately happened is that at some point they decided that the humor would be a better sell for them, and that's why they may have pushed for the darker material to be lightened or eliminated entirely during the editing process. And that's quite possibly why the trailers and TV spots presented the film in the way that they did.

21 days 22 hours 58 minutes 36 seconds since the Depp/Burton Dark Shadows has been in release(ET)!!

Offline Cousin_Barnabas

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Re: Depp/Burton DARK SHADOWS Is In Release!!
« Reply #478 on: June 02, 2012, 04:27:13 AM »
Yes, and we do know that Warners loved the script... loved, loved, loved the script.  So perhaps they were reading it differently than Burton was?  I have no idea.  But the final product makes it clear that a lot of editing went down... and it wasn't to the film's benefit. 

Offline Mysterious Benefactor

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Re: Depp/Burton DARK SHADOWS Is In Release!!
« Reply #479 on: June 02, 2012, 04:41:32 AM »
Plus there was the under two hours edict.  [ghost_sad]

Though even at that I still think that for the most part the necessary info needed to make sense of the plot and connect the dots is in the film. I just wish there had been no such edict and the film could have run longer than it does.

21 days 23 hours 41 minutes 32 seconds since the Depp/Burton Dark Shadows has been in release(ET)!!