Depp/Burton DARK SHADOWS Spoilers

[PennyDreadful]

Dark Shadows was always underpinned by literary roots. Underneath the soap and the Gothic horror, there is epic tragedy. The new feature film should be a Wuthering Heights, instead it's a comedy with a drag-queen substituted for the Shakespearean lead.

Crossing The Addams Family with The Rocky Horror Picture Show is not Dark Shadows.

I agree with you 100% and am very saddened by what I've heard thus far.  I had high hopes because Burton and Depp both claimed to be huge fans of the classic series.  If what I'm hearing is correct, I don't understand their decision in the slightest. 

As Barnabas would say, "you betrayed me!!"

[Richard]

Dan Curtis negotiated with MGM / WB to make a Dark Shadows feature film. He was unwilling to surrender creative control. The studios may have had Depp and Burton in mind the whole while, who knows.

I agree with you, Richard and the fact that this will clearly be a comedy makes me sick. For awhile I had hopes that the yay sayers were right and that it wasn't going to be THAT funny but it looks like I'm wrong. What gives me pause is the legions of original fans who are ready to embrace such a thing. And you know I saw the 2004 pilot at a DS fest. I didn't care for it because I didn't feel it was true to Dan Curtis' vision either BUT I think that was more faithful than what this train wreck will likely be.

In the one discussion I had with Dan Curtis, he expressed his disappointment in the first reboot and his disgust in the second reboot. There were creative control arguments, and he regretted making the concessions he made. He did not like the direction discussions were going in for a Dark Shadows feature. Watch that interview with Curtis on The Night Stalker / The Night Strangler DVD for his thoughts on the subject. I think Curtis realized that MGM and Warner Brothers wanted the intellectual property but not his involvement.

Richard

[Richard]

I agree with you 100% and am very saddened by what I've heard thus far.  I had high hopes because Burton and Depp both claimed to be huge fans of the classic series.  If what I'm hearing is correct, I don't understand their decision in the slightest. 

As Barnabas would say, "you betrayed me!!"

Crossing The Addams Family with The Rocky Horror Picture Show reflects their orientation, the way they see things and do things, rather than a conscious decision. To Depp and Burton, Dark Shadows has always been camp comedy. They observe the flaws resulting from tight schedules and low budgets, and the unintentional humor arising from the dated style of the 1960s, and they think that's what the program is about. It provides them with fodder to ridicule and mock. They made a fetish out of the program long before the camera cranked. The dramatic story is incidental to Depp and Burton.

Their orientation is the very reason they are the wrong people to make the film.

Richard

[Richard]

As I understand it, making the DS movie wasn't any Warner Bros. execs' idea, it was Johnny Depp's.  Johnny Depp was the one who wanted to make the movie, and ended up at Warner Bros.  It was Johnny, not Warner, that wanted Tim aboard, wasn't it?

Correct. Depp owned the rights and could have taken it to whatever studio he wished.

Wrong.
Wrong as in incorrect.

[edited by admin]

Reviving Dark Shadows with a definitive feature film was Dan Curtis' idea before Depp and Burton got control of it.


Richard

[Nancy]

Yes, that is what Depp has said in the press and in other interviews.  The Dan Curtis Estate has control of the license and is protective of where that license/rights go.  Obviously they are quite aware of the style of films Depp and Burton make.  Anyone who saw the 1991 Revival, which Curtis was intimately involved with, knows that Curtis was willing to go in other directions with his beloved DS.  It should come as a surprise to no one that the Curtis estate would allow Burton and Depp to have a license to rework DS.

Nancy

As I understand it, making the DS movie wasn't any Warner Bros. execs' idea, it was Johnny Depp's.  Johnny Depp was the one who wanted to make the movie, and ended up at Warner Bros.  It was Johnny, not Warner, that wanted Tim aboard, wasn't it?

[Midnite]

Sarcasm directed at other posters is both unproductive and unwelcome.

[Richard]

It's a shame Dan Curtis didn't get make his feature film of Dark Shadows. He was willing to go in other directions, but turning Dark Shadows into a drag queen comedy was not one of them. And although he was involved in the reboots, he wasn't happy with them, and he knew he could do better.

Let's hope his estate is more discriminating next time and does not permit another slur such as this to happen again.


Richard

[madscntst]

As I said earlier in the non-spoiler thread, I am a longtime fan of both DS (I used to run home from school...) and Burton/Depp.  While I agree with much of what y'all are saying here with regard to disappointment in hearing that this is pretty much a comedy, I would personally not go so far as to say it's sickening.  If it's not your/our cup of tea, that's fine, but it doesn't destroy the OS or the fans of the OS.  I will be seeing the film on opening weekend regardless, and if I don't like it, then so be it, but at worst, it'll be a disappointment for what could have been.  It won't change how I feel about DS.

Depp bought the rights, so he made the film that he envisioned, and for him, this meant bringing Burton on board.  I truly believe that he is honoring DS in his own way, and I really don't feel that he had any intention of trivializing the show.  Here is a question, though-- Jim Pierson was involved in this production, so what is his responsibility in all of this??  If anyone would serve as a spokesman for what Dan Curtis Productions would want, isn't it him?  Now, it could be that he was against the film's direction and got vetoed.  But it'd be interesting to learn later on how much input he actually had.  (Though if he was against the film, I doubt it would ever be made public).  For most other films, a lot has been written about both Burton and Depp wanting to honor the source material.  Ed Wood's widow visited the set of that film and was asked what she thought, Sondheim was involved with Sweeney Todd, and they spoke with the family of Roald Dahl for Charlie and the Chocolate Factory, and so on.  Maybe this time was different, I dunno.  But I just can't believe they would have deliberately wanted to thumb their nose at the OS.

Finally, I disagree with those who seem to think that all Burton/Depp films are silly parodies.  Maybe this one will be, but I count Sweeney Todd among my favorite horror films, and it was anything but silly or disrespectful.

[madscntst]

P.S. I haven't heard any of the feedback mentioning any drag queen sequences. 

[Cousin_Barnabas]

 



Well said, madscntst.  I don't think any of us have enough information to judge this film unless we have seen it for ourselves.  So, while discussion about what we may or may not like is fine, it's really just speculative up to this point.  Because, until we actually see the film, we really don't know if it is respectful to the original or not.   

[Richard]

I assure you the film is not respectful of the original series.

Depp and Burton's idea of respect is not my idea of respect.

Further, I don't believe Dan Curtis would like this film.

Every part Depp plays is in flamboyant clothes and headgear and face paint, way over the top, like a drag queen. When you see the film, and his makeup, you'll see what I mean.

It's sad that so many people are going to accept this garbage as Dark Shadows.

It is NOT Dark Shadows, and that's that.


Richard

[Phil]

Reviving Dark Shadows with a definitive feature film was Dan Curtis' idea before Depp and Burton got control of it.

Somewhere around 1970, I think...?

[Richard]

Was that sarcasm, Phil?

Sarcasm directed at other posters is both unproductive and unwelcome.

No, I'm referring to the 1990s negotiations and the early 2000s negotiations.

Understand that I cherish Dark Shadows and I respect Dan Curtis.


Richard

[Phil]

But in all seriousness, why must Curtis' "vision" be strictly adhered to in the first place? The Dark Shadows we know and love exists only because Curtis threw a Hail Mary pass on a show he was sure was going to be canceled. I don't need every version of Dark Shadows to open with "a girl on a train" just because that was in a dream Dan Curtis had. And if there wasn't a large faction of fans who loved the silliness and the mishaps, there wouldn't be a collection of bloopers on DVD, or ACTUAL drag shows lampooning the series AT FAN CONVENTIONS.

There's no one way to engage a piece of entertainment. Your way isn't automatically the "correct" way. I met several women at DS fests who told me they, well, engaged themselves while watching the show as teens. And there they were attending a fest 40 years later. Is their passion for the show any less valid than anyone else's? I think Burton and Depp are playing dress up and celebrating the things they loved about the property, and maybe adding a little bit along the way. In any event, robotically recreating the events of the original series with a straight face has been done at least twice before, and the 2004 pilot was also too attached to the source in my opinion. I'm looking forward to something weird and different.

I don't mean any offense, and I respect your passion. But there's an old Faulkner (I think?) quote, where he was asked if he was upset by what the films had done to his books. His response: "They haven't done anything to my books. They're all right there, on the shelf."

[Midnite]

We've gone way off topic with the discussion of the comedic elements in the linked story turning into a general discussion about Dan Curtis' vision.  This thread is for Movie Spoilers.